Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Hi everyone. Welcome back to Conversations with Anthony where we explore the latest trends in M and A and private equity.
So today I'm joined by the co founders of the chambers and legal 500 rank firm, Misumi and Consoli. I'm here with Peter Misumi and Tony Consoli.
All three of us are YPO members and friends and our groups share mutual clients. So we have a long history here and today we're going to explore some insights from them on private equity, legal issues around private equity and current trends and explore some themes around that. But before we do that, why don't we get into Peter and Tony. Why don't you give us your backgrounds and also explain how and why you formed the firm.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Thank you Anthony, really appreciate it. Glad to be here.
Really enjoy the relationship we've had over several years.
So yeah, I'm Peter Misumi, I'm based in Los Angeles. Tony and I started this firm back in 2015. Actually St Patrick's Day of 2015 is when we formed it.
We were both at Kirkland and Ellis practicing in the private equity M and A group before that and, and initially met as, as friends and remain. So we started the firm to build something entrepreneurial and results focused for the middle market.
We wanted it to be something different that stood out in the market.
You know, back when we started the firm and we were at Kirkland, which you know, is a phenomenal practice, what we noticed was that there was a big gap developing in terms of legal counsel options for sophisticated private equity work.
Firms like Kirkland made a very concerted effort to move up market which has been remarkably successful for them and go after mega funds. And it's, you know, it worked. And what that left behind was a huge swath of the middle market in terms of PE transactions that remained without compelling options or appropriate options for law firms. So we thought that we would build something that has the sophistication and the polish that you need for complex deals with the responsiveness and client driven focus that a boutique offers. And that's what we did and that's what we've been since we started. Our message and our value proposition has remained the same. We've been very squarely focused on sponsor backed and strategic buyer M and A and growth equity ever since.
And we've just gotten bigger and better.
Our solution includes a comprehensive in house specialty practice so we can deliver full, the full spectrum of council end to end for private equity needs from you know, initial investment through their ownership period. And we built that over the last few years and are building out some practices complementary to that as well.
[00:03:02] Speaker C: Yeah, and over the, over the past year. And I'm Tony Console. Nice to see everybody. Thanks for having us, Anthony.
Over the past year we've expanded that platform.
The core of our practice was always private equity M and A. We've expanded that to include other practice areas. You know, for example, litigation and dispute resolution, which we launched back in June of 24 with the addition of Michael Huttenmacher. And he handles in addition to the various litigation needs of portfolio companies, post closing disputes, earnout issues and other transaction related controversies that he inevitably come up after transactions happen.
We continue to build that group out with some associate lateral talent and the addition of Louis zero Giannis who also delivers a, a very effective investigations practice alongside of a more robust litigation, commercial litigation practice as well.
Along the same lines, earlier this year we launched a real estate practice because we saw a need in the market very similar to the one that we saw in private equity M and A for real estate. And so that group now has, has become phenomenally busy and successful and focuses on complex real estate transactions and also supports the M and A transactions where there's a real property footprint that may be a material part of the transaction or not.
And a lot of the work that we do in that space supports the industrial work, energy work and infrastructure work that we do on the M and A side as well. So we have all of that under one roof now, as you know, a complement to the core practice that we originally built over 10 years ago now.
[00:04:39] Speaker B: That's great. It's a phenomenal story and I think one of the reasons why we've hit it off and gotten along so well as I listened to your story and a lot of it resonates back from 20 years ago when myself and others started at A and M and built the practice over time and started from scratch. And there's a lot of synergies and a lot of things that I think we have in common. So I love to hear stories like that and it's quite an impressive, quite an impressive run you have and I know there's many more years to come.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: So, Peter and Tony, 2025 has been an interesting year. I think everyone thought in the PE world that it would be quite an active year and we get off to really an active start. That didn't happen for many reasons, geopolitical and otherwise. But why don't we talk about what you're seeing in the market right now? How would you describe deal activity across the middle market. And what are some of your general observations?
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's been an incredibly dynamic several years, as you've seen, Anthony, you know, and very tough to predict. I think as you said, you know, almost everyone in the M and A advisory space and the investor Space thought that 2025 was going to be a huge year.
I think Liberation Day and a few other factors sort of threw a wrench in that. But I would say the good news is that Tony and I and our firm, we've seen a really nice uptick the last, call it two or three months and there's a high degree of confidence that in the market that we haven't seen. And when I say market, I mean the M and A market, private equity world.
So we're busy as heck and we're seeing a lot of our peers like yourselves be very busy. So, you know, we feel very good about what's going on these days.
But you know, just to maybe speak more to, you know, maybe the last six months or a year, you know, large buyouts were generally pretty slow.
You know, there's been a recent uptick like I mentioned, especially in megadeals.
Things like the higher interest rate environment definitely can frustrate the larger deal activity because you're, you're depending on a much larger quantum of financing, debt financing for those transactions. But you know, the one thing that I would say has been really consistent over the last several years is smaller and lower mid market deals. They've been very resilient, very steady. You know, for example, we as a firm have stayed busy and even consistently had some really good growth during the last few years of choppiness.
Part of that is I think funds are moving down market to try to identify more opportunities. You know, PE has become a crowded space in a lot of ways. There's a ton of capital that needs to be invested, so there's just a lot more competition for assets. So, you know, some funds are being strategic and going into places where others haven't gone before. You know, targeting platforms that maybe require less leverage, which make it easier to get the deal done because you're not as dependent on availability of good credit. They carry less risk and they can be grown through M and A.
You're seeing a lot of competition in fragmented sectors where buy and build strategies are the way to create scale to grow.
And the bar for large transactions remains really high. We're seeing new roll up playbooks every year in industries that haven't been PE targets before. For example, you know, well, the Residential services and professional services boom that we've seen the last few years. I feel like every month I'm hearing about something where I thought. Where you think that makes sense. I can't believe no one ever did this before.
So, you know, the private equity investor ecosystem, they're creative, they're entrepreneurial, and they keep figuring out ways to get deals done.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: I'm glad you mentioned add ons and we've seen many of the same trends. But curious, from your perspective as council add ons, I think in Q2 were over 70% of general buyout activity in the US which we've seen. But as your approach to your clients and as counsel, does your approach change at all between a platform deal and some of the things that you mentioned, Peter, and then a situation where it's an add on.
And what do you do differently, if anything?
[00:08:52] Speaker C: Well, I would say that with buy and build strategies, I mean, it's really not just about papering and negotiating the platform.
You know, initially, it's really about helping our clients run the entire program that relates to the buy and build strategy. And so that means every add on has to be integrated and de risk from day one.
It means tighter focus on governance and rollover mechanics, special attention to things like restrictive covenants and consistency across deal documents and checklists.
You know, part of that, and it goes back to what I said earlier, but part of that is predicting sort of where disputes may arise and preparing for that as well.
So, you know, all said, I think a repeatable playbook matters, especially when you're doing a higher velocity or volume of add ons for a buy and build strategy or otherwise.
And, you know, that makes it easier on the clients we represent as well. And so we work with them to sort of devise that playbook for any particular platform and really come up with something that works for that particular set of situations or transactions that come up.
And each, you know, Peter mentioned different industries where we're seeing sort of more activity. I think each one of those industries requires a sort of thoughtful approach in terms of how we approach things. And so that's something that we really focus on as well.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Curious, Tony, on that point, do either you or Peter or the attorneys that you have in house, do you specialize by sector or is it more specialization by area?
[00:10:30] Speaker C: I would say we're generally pretty agnostic in terms of how we approach different verticals or industry verticals.
And the thing that we've seen sort of matter the most is sort of experience with private equity and complex equity structures. And that sort of thing. And so with few exceptions, that's been our approach to the market and our client relationships as well.
And you know, as it relates to specific industries where, you know, particular expertise might come into play more, there's usually a really great way to collaborate with clients on making sure that all those sorts of things are addressed.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Peter and Tony, continuation vehicles have been quite the popular area over the last couple years. We've seen it on our side in a handful of situations both this year and in years past.
I would say from our perspective when we are involved with a continuation vehicle, for us it really is analogous to performing sell side financial due diligence and so it doesn't really change much of what we do. But that said, I think the secondaries market is upwards of 40 billion so far in the first half of 2025. So it's quite active, various situations for various reasons.
But what's your view on continuation vehicles? And from your perspective again as counsel, do you approach things differently, for example than you would in an add on situation like we just talked about or a platform deal? But what are some of the nuances when you look at a continuation vehicle situation?
[00:12:16] Speaker A: Yeah, Anthony, I'd say that the CV world is one of the more interesting phenomena of the private equity industry over the last handful of years. And you know, to my earlier point about, you know, private equity firms being creative and innovative and sort of keeping things going through, through, through tough times, you know, the CV development, you know, the, the, you know, the invention and the adoption of has done a lot to help people still get deals done even when exits are otherwise very difficult and fundraising has otherwise been difficult.
So they have unquestionably gone mainstream.
They're a convenient way to give sponsors the room they need to keep executing on a strategy with a particular company without being forced to do an exit on a restricted timetable. Typically when you think about a good CV deal, it's a prize asset that PE firm thinks that they have a bit more Runway with, call it several years and they don't want to be forced to give it up on the timeline that their LPs were traditionally expected to be exited. So it could be a win win for the GPs and the LPs when the asset is working or needs more time to mature, the LPs can have the choice to either cash out or roll over into the deal going forward. And then the gp, the sponsor, keeps building it while reopening the door for additional investment. You know, sometimes you'll see CVs where the LPs who are rolling forward or investing into it will put a bunch of additional capital into the platform for, let's say M.
And I'd say in terms of how things might look different with cvs, I mean one thing I could say is as the momentum has built in the CV market, you know, the execution bar is higher, you know, there's more attention being paid to ensuring that these transactions are done in a fair and transparent way.
So, you know, while you're seeing more multi asset CVs with that comes heavier scrutiny. And in General, just because CVs are becoming bigger and more prevalent, there's more scrutiny on valuations, fees conflicts, things of that nature.
You know, the focus today for council is building fairness and transparency around the process.
Having independent checks, third parties, protections for the sponsors and LPs that might not be relevant in traditional buyouts and exits.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Peter, in your estimation, and I always like to hear what other firms are doing, but I would imagine there's probably more of your work as a percentage of total involving secondary and CV type situations than we would see. But if you had a ballpark, it what, what percentage do you think you've looked at this year where it was a CV type situation?
[00:14:54] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'd start by saying, you know, as it relates to anything that you, you know, most people would consider lower middle market or you know, lower end of the middle market, you know, let's say sub $500 million deals, we're not seeing it very often at all. I think part of that is just the CV mechanism and product hasn't yet penetrated that end of the market as much as larger scale deals. I think that's just a function of time and maturity of the market and I think that's going to change over the coming years and we as a middle market focused firm will be very curious to see that shift happen because I think we personally will start seeing more deals.
But as it relates to the bigger deals, we do call it over 500 million, higher end of middle market and above, maybe something like in the teens in terms of percentage, maybe up to 20%. We're seeing deals that involve a CB.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Interesting.
There's a lot of press around it, so I'm always curious just to hear and see what other people are observing.
Okay, why don't we move on to valuations?
Clearly from my vantage point we've seen quite a disparity in valuations. For a good asset there's a lot of competition and valuations are quite high for a mediocre asset, for Lack of a better term. There's a lot of pressure on valuations from our vantage point and what we see. And that raises a whole host of other issues about timing of a transaction, continued examination of financial results month after month. But there's a whole lot that goes into determining valuation and how a deal gets done.
From your vantage point, what are you seeing and what are some of the things that PE firms are using to help them get deals done?
[00:16:44] Speaker C: So there are a number of tools in the toolkit to bring buyers and sellers together. And I would say over the last several years there's been a lot of choppiness in valuations.
And so some of the things that we think about are mechanics around earnouts. And that is a way to sort of bridge a gap and perceive valuation when the market may otherwise not be as clear as we'd like it to be.
I think one of the key takeaways with respect to an earn out is how are you measuring it? How can you make it objective? I mean, this is one of the areas that's ripe for dispute post closing if it's not structured the right way. And so our job as thoughtful practitioners is to create burnout mechanics that allow you to be objective, allow you to sort of measure with more ease and avoid that dispute post closing. But also align goals of the business and the sellers going forward to make sure that the earnout's achievable. And also something that makes everyone a winner. I don't view earnouts as zero sum and I think that's the right way to think about it if you want to maximize value post closing for everyone.
So you have that. You have things like rep and warranty insurance that are obviously not new to the market, but allow buyers to offer a more compelling package. Because as a seller, you're thinking about how do I maximize value and then also how do I keep that value in my pocket post closing and for buyers who want to stand out in the marketplace, you want to ensure that, especially to the extent there's a meaningful rollover, you're not sort of in a dispute with the folks that are now running your company or helping run your company post closing and then of course, there are things like working capital adjustments and the mechanics that you have around, around that portion of the acquisition.
Another place where you can run into disputes, but really trying to streamline those pieces of a deal that are most likely to cause some turbulence post closing if not done the right way. So taking all of that out, I think, and allowing you to focus on sort of what the true value to a seller is with respect to a deal, I think is really where you get everybody happy and pursuing a close in the way you want to.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's interesting. I know when I'm working on a deal, I probably spend large majority of my time on the back end once the purchase agreement is starting to come into shape, and more specifically spending time on network and capital mechanisms and the language around how it's measured and the financial statement reps, et cetera.
But in all the things, as you said, Tony, they're quite specific to a deal. And the more nuanced and specific you get, the higher chance there is for a potential dispute. So from your perspective, can you talk a little bit about what are some thoughts around how to, how to best prevent a dispute? And I know you have a part of your practice that specializes in that, but what are some recommendations you would give to our audience if they're looking to get a legal point of view on how you may lower the chance of a dispute?
[00:20:03] Speaker C: Well, for us, a lot of times it's bringing in our disputes team to review contractual provisions before actually having them executed and getting that, that eye, you know, on the document. Because I think it's something to take for granted upfront when everybody's excited about closing a deal from a business perspective, but preparing for the fact that somebody might not see eye to eye with our client, you know, post closing. And, you know, a lot of that's just rooted in, again, being objective. Like we want clear provisions in the document, we don't want a lot of space for interpretation, and we want to come to a place where everybody feels good about the deal to get it done.
So I think, you know, spending a lot of that time up front being thoughtful both with respect to the terms of the, of something like the earn out itself, but then also from the dispute resolution perspective, like, what happens if we don't agree on this and how can we sort of take that variable out of the equation?
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah, sometimes just I'll add my perspective for us, a lot of times we'll have someone from our disputes practice who has served as a neutral arbitrator, for example, take a look at the language and give their point of view, how would this come out in the event that there was an arbitration.
And that point of view is quite helpful and gives almost a practical look at those types of situations.
[00:21:26] Speaker C: I think it's also our approach to having our counterparties feel comfortable that we are trying to get to a place of collaboration. We obviously have a gap in perceived value and that's why we haven't earned out in the first place. But it's not to say that we don't actually want them to achieve that or not. We do and we want to make it clear and we want to have that sort of objectivity that allows them to really work towards that goal and a lot of incentives.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Next topic I'd like to discuss, and it's at the top of everyone's list, is AI and how it's being used. And every firm's doing it different.
I think most firms, including ourselves, are at the early stages and continuing to learn and develop.
But it's a must in today's market.
In your view, how has AI changed the deal market, at least from a legal perspective and how you go about your work and some thoughts around where AI is, is, is leading you?
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I'd say short answer, not a whole lot just yet, but it's happening real time. And you know, if we have this conversation in a month or even several months, I would say, I predict that things we're going to have a lot more to say about how it's actually implemented day to day practice.
We're very excited about it as a firm. We think it's going to be an incredible tool for the deal marketplace and the deal industry because you know, as you well know Anthony, and the things that happen on a day to day basis, there is an efficiency and there are faster ways that things can be done.
So you know, one example that's that we see, you know, today is it is speeding up due diligence.
So you know, you think about scanning contracts, flagging change of control provisions, just generally the amount of time it takes to review documents, it's cutting it down from days to hours.
So you know, efficiency is a big win on, on review you're seeing certain tools that will give you technical and regulatory diligence. So you're getting, you know, deeper technical analysis in more complex areas like data privacy and intellectual property.
You know the key from our perspective because you know, we have to uphold, you know, the most rigorous standards and the work product we deliver is you've got to have human quality control no matter what happens.
So nothing leaves our, our firm and goes into, you know, clients hands or anywhere else's without serious review of, of attorneys, you know, so that can't be replaced. So for example, if there's a due diligence review that's done that, you know, some sort of contract review that's done by AI absolutely. Still needs human review to, to check it.
At our firm today, we're using Harvey, which, you know, I'm sure a lot of your listeners have heard about or use. It's a leading legal AI platform, has built an impressive business over the last several years, you know, backed by a lot ton of huge investors that we all know about. So we've integrated that into our workflow. You know, it's bringing tangible benefits to our clients that we're seeing streamlining diligence. You know, it surfaces key issues in large data sets, it helps us compare terms across documents and you know, slowly but surely we're helping, it's, we're using it to help us accelerate drafting in certain circumstances.
So, you know, you got shorter timelines, you got better budget predictability for our clients, which is always key.
We use it in a very secure attorney led environment and there's clear guardrails around review and privacy.
And looking ahead, it's just going to get faster, it's going to get more capable. The edge will be with the teams that know how to operate, operationalize it intelligently, pair it with the human judgment that I'm talking about that you can't replace. And that requires a lot of deal experience and a lot of experience dealing with people on deals.
But it's exciting times ahead and we look forward to seeing what it can do.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it's quite interesting and everyone has a different path, a different take, but everyone at the end of the day is doing something. So it's nice to hear different use cases and experiences from different firms.
So we've just talked a lot about structuring about strategy and for some of the guests I've had on, on this podcast, I've asked and talked to them directly about his or hers personal experiences with, with clients or with an owner selling a company.
So I'm going to ask the two of you as council, what is, what is it like being at the closing table?
For, for us, our work is generally done and we're kind of on standby at that point. But, but for you guys, you're actually there, you're side by side.
There's a ton of things that come up at the 11th hour that, that most cases attorneys are dealing with and not the accountants. But why don't you give us some, some personal stories without naming names of just what to expect and some things you've gone through at the closing table.
[00:26:29] Speaker C: Well, I'd say being at the closing table is pretty exciting because there's a lot of work that goes into a transaction sometimes over many months.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: And.
[00:26:36] Speaker C: And I feel like you're sort of locked arm in arm with your client to get them to their goal. And that's really why we did this in the first place. We thought that there was a need for a sort of boutique white glove solution to closing M and A deals that sat alongside the biggest firms in the world.
And so from a personal fulfillment perspective, I mean, inevitably, on every transaction, big or small, something always comes up. There's always a wrinkle. And I think when I, you know, when I. When I think about the things that make me sort of most, most prideful about that experience, you know, it's really helping the client navigate those sticky situations and working through those things that are sort of novel. Because if you take any given M and A deal, there's a lot of nuts and bolts that are the same from deal to deal with.
I think you really, you really show your value and you really show your partnership when you're willing to sort of commit to solving a really difficult issue and not putting it back on the client to do that, rather sort of helping them navigate it, giving them counsel. Because I think most, if not all, lawyers in this space are generally pretty adept at sort of the process or the checklist and that sort of thing, or at least they should be.
The thing that sort of stands out in my mind that separates the good lawyers from the great are those people who can really think through that tough issue and come up with a solution and not think about it necessarily as risk management, but actually deal making. Because there are many situations where not everybody is going to be all that comfortable with the solution, but we really are trying to get to a solution. We're not trying to hold the deal up, we're trying to get it done.
And so using our experience and our expertise to help find a solution to that is really where we help the clients win. And so there's no better feeling, from my perspective, than winning alongside of your clients and getting to that sort of finish line after months of effort.
So that's what I would say in terms of what it's like to be at the closing table. There's something that always comes up, but handling that in a thoughtful way and a constructive way and, you know, a creative way, I think is the most fun part of our job. And really when we feel the most successful.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: That's great perspective. Peter, how about you?
[00:29:01] Speaker A: Yeah, like Tony said, it's, it's, it's, it's a moment when I Think lawyers can really shine. And you can see a separation between great lawyers and so, so lawyers, because you're under a lot of pressure. There's always going to be stuff that comes up, there's a bunch of paper flying around, and people are under higher levels of anxiety and stress. You know, your client is under a lot of pressure to get it done right. You know, in some cases, it can have serious career implications and things like that. So, you know, we really have to perform and shine. And it's, you know, it's a combination of being available just physically there and ready. And, you know, sometimes you're not sleeping at all for several nights in a row. But it's also, it's on top of that, not just being available, but being energetic, having presence of mind, not losing your creativity, you know, not resorting to sort of old, old ways of doing things, and just constantly trying to improvise because it's almost required on every single deal. And you got to remain calm under pressure. So, you know, I really like it. It's sort of a more performative part of our job.
And, you know, I think, you know, number one way to disappoint a client is to have a closing that isn't smooth.
And a good way to win the loyalty of your clients and to really show them value add is to, you know, when you get the phone call saying, that was such a smooth closing, I didn't feel a gl.
You know, they might not feel a glitch. There might be a lot of hustle and bustle and scurrying in the background, but if they don't feel it and they don't see it, that's. That's a. That's a great result.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
Okay, guys, so. So last question.
As we head into the final stages of 2025 and looking forward to 2026, what are some thoughts around the market and what do you expect in 2026?
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Well, I would say there's always going to be a lot of unknowns. I don't get the sense that 2026 is any more volatile than any other time in the recent past.
But if I were to. The one thing that we know is that there are a lot of unknowns. And so accounting for that, I think keeping flexibility at the center of your strategy is key, both with respect to structure and valuation and how to bridge any gaps there.
I think that the old way of sort of just doing deals as fast as you can when the market was always hot, that has its place. And there are certainly situations where that might still be relevant. But I think a lot of sellers are sort of pensive about timing and partnering with the right partner. You know, a lot of folks have made the wrong decisions in terms of who they partner with going forward. And so I think keeping that front and center in your mind and thinking about how to get sellers comfortable with that is a big part of deal making. And so maybe that means that you offer up a novel structure that you haven't seen before. Maybe it's a minority strategy to start, and then you accrete your way into control if there's a very large gap in valuation and the sellers are concerned that maybe they're leaving value on the table. And so being thoughtful, being creative, being flexible, and really listening to what sellers are saying, I think is the right sauce to make sure that deals are getting done on the timeline that you want.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: Interesting, Peter, your point of view.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: I'm excited about 2026.
You know, I know I mentioned before, but I'll say it again. You know, I give the private equity industry a lot of credit for being creative and adaptive and navigating some very strange cycles over the last, you know, 10, 15 years.
And, you know, I think if there's a. If there's a thought I have about 2026 is, don't count private equity out. I think it's gonna be a big year. You have so much capital that needs to be deployed and you have a lot of companies that I think are going to come to market and you're gonna have a lot of sponsor exit activity, which is something you have not seen the last couple years. And, you know, part of the reason why you saw the CB boom over the last few years, but I think you're going to start to see some more real sponsor exits and some dpi, and I think it's going to be good times for a lot of sponsors that have good assets to sell.
I do think there are going to be some sponsors that will continue to have challenges with some of the, you know, 2020, 2021 vintage deals that they did. And that's just going to be something that has to be worked through the system.
But overall, I think it's going to be, it's going to be a strong year. You know, interest rates are lower than they were earlier this year.
You know, a lot of the hype around, you know, tariffs I think has settled and, you know, people have sort of accepted what we now know as a new norm, and we have stability with the Trump administration. You know, being here for a while and people sort of knowing how to operate a little better, you know, within the under the Trump administration. So I think it's going to be strong. I think, I think PE is going to have a nice cycle coming up and we're going to be ready to dive in.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Well, I agree with both of you. I expect 26 to be an active year and I also, Tony, I'm a big believer in being flexible and adaptive. I think that's a big contributor to success whether you're an investor or you're an advisor like all of us. And I think those are keys to doing well in a market no matter what the condition.
Well, guys, Peter, Tony, thank you so much. It's been great conversation. Thank you for stopping by today and thank you for the relationship and we look forward to many more years to come. So take care guys. Thanks.
[00:34:30] Speaker A: Thank you. I really appreciate it.
